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Parties say Israel-Vatican accord accepts occupation
Published Monday 11/06/2012 (updated) 13/06/2012 10:42
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BETHLEHEM (Ma’an) -- Palestinian political factions on Sunday condemned a draft economic agreement between Israel and the Vatican, saying it entails the Holy See recognizing Israeli legislation in East Jerusalem and occupied Palestinian territory.

The document outlining an agreement between Israel and the Vatican on legal and fiscal issues has been circulating in different circles, the PLO said in a statement.

By failing to distinguish between Israel and annexed East Jerusalem and Palestinian territory under occupation, the text would see the Vatican indirectly recognize Israel's "exercise of powers and authorities in the occupied Palestinian territories," the PLO said.

The Bilateral Permanent Working Commission of Israel and the Vatican will meet on Monday and Tuesday in Rome on the draft, Israeli daily Haaretz reported.

"We trust that the Holy See will clarify the situation and affirm that it will uphold its legal and moral responsibility as a High Contracting Party to the Fourth Geneva Convention," Fatah official Nabil Shaath said in a statement.

Kayed al-Ghoul, a member of the Palestinian Front for the Liberation of Palestine, said that if the draft is signed it would represent a serious shift in the Vatican's position towards the Palestinians.

Palestinian Liberation Front delegate Adnan al-Ghareeb called on the Vatican to maintain its position towards the Israeli occupation, a statement said.

The Vatican is part of the international consensus which recognizes the Palestinian territories as being under Israeli military occupation, Fatah official Shaath said.

"As such, any agreement with Israel must not jeopardize or undermine this legal fact nor contribute to Israel’s systematic and illegal policies of undermining the Palestinian people’s inalienable right to self-determination," he added.
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1 ) southparkbear / usa
11/06/2012 17:03
Palestinian people’s inalienable right is live and well in Jordan

2 ) Yehuda Solomon / Israel
11/06/2012 18:43
@ 1) southparkbear/usa, Couldn't have said it better myself ... So let me just add and finish to what you've said and say, "AMEN !!!" ... Regarding this Israel-Vatican accord, all I can say for now is if this document entails the Vatican finally recognizing our annexation and sovereignty over all of Jerusalem, Jesus would agree. It sure as hell is about time. He'd probably say so and agree on that, too.

3 ) Tibi / Tubas
11/06/2012 18:55
The whole world, like the Vatican, accepts that life in Jerusalem and the West Bank must continue, while the PA refuses to accept peace with Israel.

4 ) Carlos / usa
11/06/2012 19:21
I stopped going to a Catholic Church when the pope visited Bethlehem after the criminal attack on Gaza by israel. The pope did not condemn the attack. Since then I have not been able to go to Catholic church at all. I went once to a Maronite Catholic church as a way to support Arabs in general within Catholic church. But the leader is still the pope who refuses to condemn evil behavior by israel. I send my church money to UN agency on Refugees in Middle East.

5 ) Yehuda Solomon / Israel
11/06/2012 19:24
@ 1) southparkbear/usa, Couldn't have said it better myself ... So let me just add and finish to what you've said and say, "AMEN !!!" ... Regarding this Israel-Vatican accord, all I can say for now is if this document entails the Vatican finally recognizing our annexation and sovereignty over all of Jerusalem, Jesus would agree. It sure as hell is about time. He'd probably say so and agree on that, too.

6 ) @ Carlos-4 / USA too
11/06/2012 21:13
Every nation has the right of self-defense, and before the Israeli invasion,
on January 3, Gaza's rocket fire into Israel doubled (600 per month) the
pre-ceasefire number attacks*, and Israel's invasion was aimed only at
self-defense & stopping the rocket fire into Israel, so you are right,
the Pope & whole world should have "condemned the attacks",
but you are wrong about which attacks !!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rock_mort_gaza_2008.JPG

7 ) Richard / UK
11/06/2012 21:18
This has been going round-and-round for some time:

"There will not be peace if the question of the holy sites is not adequately resolved," the Holy See's former Foreign Minister said in response to a question on Jerusalem and the Israel-Palestinian problem at a Rome conference.

"Unfortunately, up to now, the question has never been on the negotiating table in Washington or in Jerusalem. It's practically just the Holy See who is concerned about it," he said.


8 ) matt / usa
11/06/2012 23:22
I dont get it. someone please explain. israel captured this area, from jordan. this area was inhabited by jews and non jews/palestinians. when jordan took it over from the british, jordan kicked out the jews. then there was a war, and jordan lost. so now the land should go to a palestiniam capitol??

9 ) Lady M / Netherlands
12/06/2012 00:11
@ Carlos-4, if all States have the right for self-defense, why you don't recognize the rockets as Palestinians self-defense? Their country was robbed by Zionists, who have been murdered Palestinian people since the beginning of 20th century.

10 ) Robby M / Ireland
12/06/2012 01:40
The Catholic church is swamped by child abuse cases so it's no wonder they are aligning themselves to the Zionists.

11 ) shirley / australia
12/06/2012 03:00
this is the weak PA fault not locking in permanent observer state in NOV or even jan and peromising not to allowing US and Isreal all the time they needed to undermine UNESCO vote and a pal state when are you people going to realize how gutless and useless the PA are they do what US tells them they had to be dragged to Un and to get UNESCO vote enjoy being driven out or living in bastuins prisons this is what the useless PA have achieved their wait wait strategy has failed go now To UNGA NOW

12 ) Joe Fattal / USA
12/06/2012 03:43
The Vatican City approved on the occupation of Europe by Hitler and I never heard or read a condemnation by the Vatican City of the Holocaust, and they even went further than that and help lots of Nazis Generals escape Europe. So approving of another occupation the Vatican City is totally wrong.

13 ) Brian Cohen / Israel
12/06/2012 09:09
Carlos - you should go try to pray in a church in Gaza...if there are any left by the time you get there.

14 ) CARLOS / USA
12/06/2012 14:07
I would go pray in a church in Gaza but israel wont let me in. Additionally the churches in Gaza are in ruins because israel bombed them. israel bombed the hospitals and schools and stole credit cards and shot phosphorous bombs at civilian. israel destroyed water and sewage system (what does that have to do with self defense?). The government of israel disgusts me!

15 ) @ Lady M (#9) / USA (#4)
12/06/2012 16:04
1] IF anyone has "been murdering Palestinians" since the 1900s, it is:
- the Jordanians (Black Sept., 1970),
- the Lebanese (Sabra & Shatila, 1982), or
- the Palestinians themselves (Gaza Coup, 2006), and

2] even IF a country Palestinians Never "was robbed by Zionists",
- being robbed is NOT being attacked, so
- Gaza rockets are NOT "Self-Defense", but
- GAZA'S ROCKETS fired at cities ARE WAR CRIMES, and

3] Negotiations Are The Only Way to Statehood & Peace !!!


16 ) Mel / USA
12/06/2012 18:27
Agh! How sweet? The symbiosis of pietist,"righteous" Inquistionists/child abusers & neo-Nazi Zionism's own Inquisitionists &child-abusers? Very "apt" Ratzinger? Sieg(bless me fater for I've sinned)Heil! And,#15:Jordanians were a paid UK MANDATE-PROXY('Arab Legion',uniforms,weapons & all).Sabra &Shatila was orchestrated by Israel's(thenMoD)SHARON who told the Phalange,that PLO had murdered their leader Bashir Gemayel(BIG LIE).Gazans merely RETALIATE to ATTACKS by occupiers.Go back 2 school!

17 ) not religious / san marino
14/06/2012 01:08
The catholic church is the most materialistic, violent, and least spiritual religious organisation the world had ever known. I spoke with one of the argentine nuns at the monastery in artas..... she was one of the most racist people I have ever met. The main functions of the catholic church are as follows..... supressing the true gospels, accruing enormous material wealth, violent torture and persecution, and paedophilia, and helping to spread aids in africa. It is the perfect ally for zionism!

18 ) straw man / uk
14/06/2012 01:16
You have to laugh at the zionist apologists and their weak arguments based on a totally fictional version of history. Look, you can keep the lies flowing, but less and less people are foolish enough to believe them. Israel cannot survive like this forever, meaning that at some point it will have to start being realistic. The 2 state solution is a terrible idea. A better idea is one state where everyone has equal rights. EQUAL RIGHTS!? impossible in a zionist state! why? because zionism is racism

19 ) Phil / UK
14/06/2012 23:35
The Palestinian claim to East Jerusalem and the Temple Mount is based on the Islamic claim that Al Aqsa is the mosque from which Muhammad went to heaven. And the koran does say the "mosque" - not just the "place" from which he went! This claim, like all their claims to Israel's holy sites is a lie. Muhammad was dead 73 years before Al Aqsa was built. As long as Arabs continue to try to steal Israel from the Jews whom God gave the land to, there will be no peace.

20 ) moses / palestine
15/06/2012 15:07
The levant (palestine) used to be a lush forest rich with life and abundant in fruit. Then along came 'civilized' patriarchy and slowly degenerated the paradise into the sparse desert we see today. Jews, muslims and christians, all worship the same god; a cruel warlike god, who uses collective punishment against children to punish the mistakes of their parents. It is obviously a nonsense! Before patriarchy there was something we now call paganism.

21 ) pagan / earth
15/06/2012 15:13
Paganism is simply the observation of nature, the passing of the seasons and of longer astronomical cycles such as the metonic cycle etc. No costume or ritual is required, just observing nature and then using that observation to live harmoniously as part of it. 'Nature' which is everything, includes all of us, so we are all one, and that oneness is what some call 'god'. The 'civilized' patriarchal materialists have made god in their own image, an angry, sexually frustrated old man!

22 ) ian / australia
16/06/2012 08:20
#19 Arabic grammar clearly not your strong suit Phil. A "masjid" is not always a building, it's a "place of prostration" ("ism makan", name of location) ie. anywhere you pray, which is why the Prophet (pbuh) said, "The earth has been made for me a 'masjid'...." meaning Muslims can pray anywhere because the whole world is a "place of prostration" not a building! And Al-Aqsa is "the Farthest Mosque" because "...whose precincts We did bless" (17:1) means the place was already holy coz the Temple...

23 ) ian / australia
16/06/2012 08:23
(contd.) had been there...so, no building is implied when Mohammed (pbuh) made the Isra and Mi'raj on magic horse Lightning...just a holy "place". (The Ascent to Heaven BTW was from the Rock not the mosque.) But really Phil, the Palestinian claim to East Jerusalem is not religious at all...it's the same as your claim to the UK, ie. based on the fact they live there! And EJ and the "Temple Mount" have NEVER been part of any plan for modern Israel, not the Partition Plan or the state declared

24 ) ian / australia
16/06/2012 08:28
(contd.) in 1948. It remains territory seized by war and kept as plunder ever since. So the bogus claim, or "lie" as you call it, based on ancient mumbo jumbo, would seem to be the Jewish one...and of course it's worse that that, being mumbo jumbo cynically used, not even mumbo jumbo actually believed! Peace!

25 ) Phil / UK
16/06/2012 13:48
22) Ah, so by your interpretation the "farthest mosque" could have been the one at Regents Park, London. If it means the Jewish temple was the blessed place, that sorts the argument over what belongs to whom, because the Jewish temple was there first. I've seen Muslims praying on the temple mount with their feet and asses toward Al Aqsa. I've seen kids play football there. So it can't be considered all that holy to your mob. 1948 was predicted by Ezekiel. Jews are home by the will of God.

26 ) ian / australia
17/06/2012 11:58
#25 I suppose when you prostrate yourself your feet and a** have to point somewhere but aren't you getting your masjids mixed up? Mecca is south here, so muslims pray facing Al-Aqsa with al-Sakhra behind them! And playing football on the Haram...well, there are worse affronts to G-d surely than that (Mamilla Mall springs to mind...or Danny Danon's latest visit!) But I agree Phil, ancient religious ideas can be amorphous and the "farthest mosque" could be anywhere (anywhere blessed by the G-d

27 ) ian / australia
17/06/2012 12:06
(contd.) of Abraham in 620 that is, making Regent's Park unlikely). But that's why modern law and human rights is better for resolving disputes...though I don't think being "there first" is necessarily much of an argument. I mean SOMEONE had to be there before Suleiman built the masjid or maybe the descendants of Arunah the Jebusite would like their threshing floor back! And being "there first" really only works if you're still there now, not just that you WERE there (even if you were "first")

28 ) ian / australia
17/06/2012 12:07
(contd.) 2000 years ago! And as a Brit, you're surely familiar with the practice of not giving a toss about who was "there first"! And as for "Jews are home by the will of God" (as predicted by Ezekiel) well Phil, maybe they never left, just converted to Islam along the way.

29 ) Phil / UK
17/06/2012 15:15
28) Typical of your mob. The arguments you use to make your claims, you refute when they are used to show they prove Jewish ownership. Then if all else fails, pull out the "converted to Islam" card. Well if the "who was there first" argument doesn't do it for you. You can't argue with the whose there now. King David paid the Jebusite for his threshing floor. And possession is nine tenths of the law !

30 ) stu / bulgaria
17/06/2012 20:46
Most Israelis are not semitic. Most palestinians are semitic! Degree of semitism and your choice of religion are not the same thing. Anyway these religions are stupid, so who cares. Israelis want it all, they want a kingdom of the jews and they want a secular society, and they never stop going on about their wonderful democracy...... so why not separate the religion from the politics? Can't have it both ways! are you a believer or not? and where does it say in the torah about wearing those hats?

31 ) Ben / USA
29/07/2012 19:37
Jews founding a country called Israel on top of diverse mostly non-Jewish poplulation and basing that new country primarily on race, ethnicity, and religion is, was, and always will be a very dangerous and very racist bad idea. A state for Jews is a very different concept from what we actually have which is a Jewish state. If a nation has to expel and exlude another exist population for its existence and survival; that foundation of that nation is a very wicked, corrupt, and overall bad idea.
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